An Interview with Butler’s Todd Lickliter
Butler Coach Todd Lickliter sits down right before practice to discuss his team. He talks about how he recruits, the Butler Way, the status of college basketball and he even tells a story about a Butler Hall of Fame basketball player.
Butler has a wonderful old historic arena. But the basketball offices located in Hinkle Fieldhouse are modern and very impressive. We did the interview in Coach Lickliter’s office. He sat in beautiful large leather executive chair with a Butler logo on the headrest. When I entered his office he was busy working on something at his desk. I quickly snapped a few pictures of Coach Lickliter doing official “coach’s business.” As always, he was friendly, light-hearted and quick to smile. After we did the interview in his office Coach Lickliter allowed me to stick around and watch a few minutes of practice. When we arrived on the court in Hinkle all the players were shooting baskets. A few were doing some drills with some of the coaches. He brought all the players together for a few minutes and then the team started to work on their game plan for their next game. I stuck around for about 30 minutes of practice.
This interview took place in December 2003. Butler started with a losing record in pre-conference games. As the team got more experience they caught fire and finished with a surprising 16-14 record. With this interview you can read it and compare it to what actually happened
Bill Kintner: Coach, you made it through your early preconference games, how’s the team looking right now?
Todd Lickliter: Still working on becoming a team. That’s the most difficult process for each individual. To figure how they fit in. That’s their biggest concern. And then once they figure that out, how to enhance the strength of their teammates. That’s just the process and it’s something we’ve been fortunate with around here.
BK: How have your freshmen picked up the system?
TL: (laughing) They don’t have much choice now; they have had to adapt. It’s not easy and I think anybody going into a new situation will find it difficult. A guy told me one time that the hardest part of any job is starting it. And maybe that’s true. Then I am sure that the speed and the physicalness of the game are things that are very hard for young people to understand.
BK: Your run in the NCAA tournament in 2003 kind of put Butler on the map and created a lot of interest in Butler, all around the country. How are things different right now from a year ago?
TL: We don’t have six seniors anymore. So for me, it is quite a bit different. You look around — you were with those guys for four years — then to not have them around anymore is a big change. To be able to reflect, to see how well they got along and how close they were, their ability to help one another, was instrumental in that run.
BK: Is it easier to recruit now after last year?
TL: I don’t know if easier. I think possibly we’re maybe a little more recognizable. So if you make a call or even people call us at times, they know who you are. You know, it’s a great thrill to be in the field of 65 in the NCAA Tournament. And then to advance is just another thrill. To prolong the season for a school our size, it’s a great story and so there was a lot in the media about it.
BK: How are things different in Indianapolis from a year ago?
TL: I don’t know that they are a lot different. Again, I think that people appreciate the way that our players played the game. They appreciated the way that they conducted themselves. So there was an opportunity for Indianapolis to be represented by a group of young men that were quality men. Men that if I were, which I am, a resident of the city, it’s who I would want representing me. Not just the Butler community, but the entire city. So, it was exciting.
BK: There’s a term now called “The Butler Way” (the coach chuckles upon hearing this). Talk to me about what this means and how it was developed.
TL: It kind of developed by watching young men make sacrifices for the good of their team. And we began to realize that these young men that Thad and Barry had recruited and I had a little bit of my hand in were special. They had high character along with skill and that they were willing — not only willing, but eager — to make sacrifices for one another. We trademarked it and I think it was before I was here. Barry and Thad developed it and we just continued to try to enhance it a little bit.
BK: You talked about high character and sacrifice. What else goes into “The Butler Way”?
TL: Well, you have to be a good player, you have to want to earn a Butler degree and you have to be willing to work each day to improve. You know that you are not in this alone and you can’t afford to take a day off. It’s not fair to everybody else. Mike (Monserez) told me the other day, “How would you like it if your surgeon took the day off ? Or your pilot or whatever?” Our guys understand that. You come to work, and believe me, it’s not a job that anybody would dislike. It’s a great job and so if they’re looking at it as work, there will be a real awakening when they get out into the real world.
BK: Let’s talk a little bit about the style of play, which I think would kind of fit under “The Butler Way.” It seems to me, that no matter who is here, you just plug your player into your system. They may not be first team all-conference, but no matter who the players are that you have, they work in the system. Explain how that works.
TL: Well, I hope that’s somewhat true. But I do think that the system is something that looks to enhance the individual player’s strengths and, it looks to allow the kind of freedom that you would want as a player. Along with that they have to be responsible and they have to have willingness or a desire to win so that they won’t do anything that’s irresponsible. It is a system that has evolved. I think the roots of it — the foundations — were established by Barry Collier and then all those people that he worked with or under. People that Thad and I both worked with or under and have learned from. You just kind of plug it in, where needed.
BK: Let me go back to Barry Collier. His first five or six years here he only had so-so success; and then it kind of clicked. I think that was right before you got here. And then things started rolling, and you joined the team. When you go back in the history of it, what clicked back with Butler basketball in the mid 90’s?
TL: Well, I think it’s just the process. It’s a hard job. All the schools — all three hundred and whatever there is, twenty-six, I think — are working hard. They have the same amount of scholarships, and they’re recruiting hard. So you have to have that level of commitment that is required to continue to make progress. And to not get disappointed or, if you have a setback, not to let it completely take all the wind out of your sails. Barry has great vision. He does things with utmost respect for individuals and there is just a quality that he adheres to. In all that he does. So, as he was going about this process, he was always on course. He doesn’t waiver a lot. As we begin to grow and recruit a little bit better athlete, a little bit better player maybe, I’m not positive that’s the case because we’ve had good players in the past. But as it comes together then the systems continue to gain strength.
BK: Talk a little about recruiting. Name some characteristics of “The Butler Way” that you look for. When you recruit those things, where’s your recruiting base? Does it start right essentially in Indiana? And can it go out from there?
TL: Well, there are obviously great players in the midwest and we’ve been fortunate to be able to recruit the midwest. You know, that’s where your contacts are. Plus, people if they are familiar with you, that helps. Well, now, we’re more familiar nationally thanks to the success that these previous student athletes have brought us. So that helps. But we will extend our base and a lot of it is other coaches and other people that see a player and they think will fit the way that we play and then let us know about it. They are not allowed to recruit for us, but we are always open to hearing from people as far as if they have a prospect for us.
BK: How do scouting services, recruiting web pages, and all that stuff work into your recruiting?
TL: Well, we are always looking for leads and my assistant coaches are terrific and they have developed a great network. They know which scouting services are reliable and I don’t know that there are any that aren’t reliable, but, for our needs, they know which ones to pick out and they scan through those, get leads and pursue players. And when the NCAA allows us, we go out and evaluate and continue the process.
BK: I imagine your team is going to be very young and inexperienced. Other than that, how is the style of play this year going to play be different from last year?
TL: Well, they are young and inexperienced; it’s interesting because I suppose the two do go together, I was thinking about what young means. I guess it could mean your age of 16, 17, 18 or whatever or you’re a sophmore. But when you think about being a young team, it means that we don’t have a lot of experiences together. They haven’t spent the summers together. They haven’t gone on foreign trips. They haven’t been in the really tough places to play or have been in situations where they’re up or down and have to remain poised. So those things, if you’re commited to handling those things in the correct way as a team member, then those produce growth and all of the sudden, you’re not inexperienced. I don’t know how long that takes. I don’t know how many of those experiences are required before you become a solid, cohesive group. What I’m hoping is not a whole lot because, you know, who has time? We’ve got a schedule coming up, and a very competitive schedule. But I think this team, I like our players as individuals and their skill. I don’t see any of them with a “me first” attitude. I think they have a “team first” attitude. That’s going to be instrumental so, I like this team.
BK: What can you tell me about the Horizon League this year? What do you see going on in the Horizon League?
TL: I think that it is the most underrated league that I know of. And I don’t follow all the leagues, who has time for that? But you do get to see the other teams play and so on and you can kind of evaluate it a little bit when you look at Milwaukee. They were second in the league last year and then won our tournament handedly over us. They go to the first round and play Notre Dame who goes to the Sweet 16 and they had a shot in the last minute to put themselves ahead and very possibly win it. Their representation was terrific and the year before, UIC’s representation in the tournament, was very strong. And of course, we made the Sweet 16. That doesn’t even count all the other teams that are so extremely competitive. Last year we had to go double overtime with Cleveland State to win, which was a huge win for us. It’s just a well-coached, good-player league that doesn’t get a lot of exposure.
BK: We’ve got two new coaches in the Horizon league. What does that mean when a new coach comes in and takes over a program within the league?
TL: Well, I am not sure to be honest with you. I know Mike Garland at Cleveland State quite well. I’ve known him for many years, but you know, I haven’t played against Cleveland State or Wright State yet. You grow to have a competitive fondness with previous coaches and I’m sure that we’ll have those emotions and battles with the new guys. They’ll bring in a new style that you have to adjust to. You know, you’re obviously close with Rollie and Eddie. I have a great respect for them and I am sure that they are doing fine and all. It’s just that’s part of coaching I guess. You move on.
BK: When you are recruiting here at Butler, what are your selling points? What are you selling at Butler?
TL: I can’t tell you that (chuckles). No, there are things about Butler — our success has been a key lately and that goes back to what was established previously. And then our players have just done a terrific job! The way our players interact with one another is a very important aspect and also the atmosphere on campus, and the quality of education. Indianapolis is a wonderful place to live, a lot of opportunities for young people. So, I think there is a great deal to sell. Hinkle Fieldhouse is a great place to call home and a wonderful place to practice. It doesn’t have all the modern amenities, but it does have history. It does have tradition. And it is ours and that’s very nice. So, there are some things, I guess, in any situation you have to know your strengths and we try to accentuate those.
BK: When a player walks in and looks at Hinkle Fieldhouse, does he either get it or not get it? Does he ever go “Wow, this is the coolest place in the world!” or does he go, “Man, this place has cobwebs, I just can’t stand it!” Do you get both those or does everyone go “wow”?
TL: You know, I think fortunately, we haven’t had any players come in that we recruited and be disrespectful. The young guys don’t know the history as well, but they have seen Hoosiers. There’s a feel to Hinkle Fieldhouse and a very dear friend of mine said last year at the end of the season — we had a sell out — and he said, “The museum came alive.” And that’s our goal. We want this beautiful, historic museum to come alive! And our fans have been terrific! To see them standing along the edge last year and storming the floor. To do those things, I just can’t tell you how gratifying it is for the Indianapolis community to be here and to support us.
BK: Now that you are really on the basketball map — big time now — is it harder to schedule? Are there people who say “I’m not going to Hinkle, no way!” or is it easier to schedule?
TL: I think it is actually has helped us. When you say on the basketball map, I really think that the coaches have known about us for some time and there’s a certain amount of respect — which I appreciate. But now that our RPI is where it’s at, there’s a respect and a perception that Butler is a program that you know is, I don’t know how to put it exactly, if you should happen to get beat by Butler, it’s no disgrace, . And so, with that, if you want to go on the road and play in a historic building in front of a good crowd, in Indianapolis and all that, then it makes sense now — and I think that’s been good actually.
BK: You’ve got two Big Ten teams on your schedule, you seem to have one or two scheduled every year, what is your scheduling philosophy?
TL: What we would like to do is bring some quality opponents to Hinkle Fieldhouse for our fans. And we can do that through the terrific rivalries right around the midwest with the in-state schools that we play home from the MAC and the Missouri Valley. Those are great games and then we try to play some schools either on a neutral or if we can get them into Hinkle, that’s wonderful that we think are really special games for us that our fans would have an interest in seeing. Last year we went to Cameron, which is an exciting place. There’s no question of the respect that Duke has. Then this year we played Indiana, which is great. We played in the Hoosier Classic two years ago and the Michigan game will be at Conseco Fieldhouse. The people at Conseco have been terrific to us and we appeciate that. We’ll take that as our second home; it’s a great facility.
BK: One part of “The Butler Way” that we haven’t talked about is academics. You graduate a very high percentage of your players. Talk about the emphasis and how important it is for academics at Butler.
TL: Well that goes back to recruiting. It is important that you recruit someone that is academically commited to earning a degree. And they have to earn it, as I am sure at any university, they have to have the mindset that there’s going to be demands but that they can do two things really well. They can be good players and they can be good students. And it’s just going to take time and time management. I believe, so it’s something that we take seriously, we’re proud of, and thankful that our players have come in here with a vision to earn a degree. And I think that can be a real benefit to us because, just like last year, we had seven seniors on the team there, eligibility-wise, so if you can keep them around longer then those guys can show the young guys what needs to be done. Plus their experience can be beneficial when we play teams that may lose players at a more rapid pace — either every couple years to the NBA or whatever it is.
BK: Okay, I want to ask you a little bit about the changes in coaching after your coaches’ meeting earlier this year about ethics. I know it doesn’t change the way you do things at Butler at all, but…
TL: Did you see Bob Knight’s quote? It was strong,! (chuckling), yeah. I’m sorry, what were you saying?
BK: I guess Knight will do his own thing. How did that change coaching? What’s going on on the state of coaching right now?
TL: I just don’t know because now we are busy with our program. We are a program that tries really hard to adhere to the rules, to do thinks ethically. We believe that we are educators first. That is not to minimize the pressure that’s involved at a competitive college program. There’s a lot of pressure involved in it, but I’m older, I’ve been through some things, and I just think that you’re better off if you have these principals that you live by and try to run your program by. And I just think there are a lot of rules in the NCAA manual and it makes it difficult. It seems to me that they are for those that are going to not abide by them and so I don’t know that more rules help us. I do think that anytime you can get a contingency like we had at Chicago and have a session where you have a strong voice together saying that we are very much interested in the state of the game, we take great pride in what we do and want it to be done well. Then you know, from that standpoint, we need to make sure that individually, we do what we know is right.
BK: Last question. I have to ask you a Big Chill question.
TL: Oh my. Big Chill. Oh, gosh.
BK: Butler Hall of Fame player Ed Schilling (Big Ed)
TL: Oh my, Ed Schilling Sr., I’ve known him for many years.
BK: He’s known to, uh, (pauses for a moment) have a lot of fun. And I need one Big Chill story. Give me a Big Chill story.
TL: Oh, I can’t give you ones where you say “have a lot of fun” because I’m never with him in those situations (both chuckle). Well, I think the world of him and as a player, oh my. Was he terrific as a player! One time after I graduated from high school, he allowed me to play on a summer league team that he coached and played on. It was mostly older guys but the reason he chose me is because I passed the ball a lot and Coach Schilling loved to be the recipient of passes. We were playing a game. We went up and down probably three or four times and he angrily called a time out, pretty quickly I might add . And the reason for the time out was he hadn’t touched the ball in those three or four trips. He wanted to make sure everybody knew that he was down there and to throw it to him. And so he was not bashful in that regard. But once you did throw it to him, you had a great chance of him being successful.
BK: He was a college coach at that time?
TL: He was the head coach at Marion College here in Indianapolis. But he still played some. Kind of like some independent league basketball. Used to be there were a lot of leagues and tounaments.. They’re just a lot of fun to play in and he was always dominating in those. He’s been a great guy. We’ve worked the Five-Star Camps together and just had a lot of fun. Now we’re trying to get together about once a month for lunch and just talk over the state of athletics and basketball. His son, Eddie, is one of my all-time favorite guys. I think he is just a wonderful coach. I’m glad to see him down at Memphis. I know he’ll be a big help to Coach Calipari.
BK: Well, I know that practice is just getting started and you need to get going. So thank you again for spending a few minutes with me.
TL: Anytime CigarBoy, anytime.
